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Thursday, September 25, 2014

September 24 2014 Jodha Akbar | 337 - Birth of Twins, Intro to Birbal's Wife, Glimpse of the Beginning of Ruqayya's Track..!!

Birth of Twins
Intro to Birbal's Wife
Glimpse of the Beginning of Ruqayya's Track..!!


I normally digest and take, whatever the CV's dish out to us. Yesterday also, i was quite optimistic in my writeup, though this episode was one, with a low performance. This episode was one of those few where i expected a huge Jashn, a BIG celebration with a lot of pomp and show. I expected an invitation to Amer Royal Household. I expected to see the celebrations in Amer. I expected TIME to stand still for a MOMENT in Agra. I expected Jalal to be present at the helm of the proceedings for the preparations of a grand feast. I can ignore everything, but this time, it's the HISTORY which forbids me to ignore the blunders of the CV's. Historically, there was a grand celebration in Amer on the birth of twins. Hence, I can safely assume that, Agra too, must have had BIG celebrations. More so, in the case when Jalal got twins, and that too, at a age of 22(It was TOO LATE by standards of those times; Salim had Khusrau at the age of 17). 

But, nothing of the sort happened, as i anticipated. There was no big celebration, no big feast, and nothing GRAND happened. To top all that, we saw Jalal NOT accompanying Jodha to the temple visit. It would have been fine if we were given an excuse of the Emperor who was busy somewhere else. That would be logical, but it did not happen. The episode was not bad. Perhaps, i had a lot of expectations. Actually, i was expecting the treatment which Royalty should be given, but ALAS, the CV's betrayed me yet again..!!

In the starting of episode, Birbal returned to his home , and we were shown his wife, who seems to be Javeda Pt-2.. But, it was fine, she was not OTT to me, at least. We see that he safely 'makes up' his wife quite easily. I am liking this Birbal. Though, Jalal has employed him in his court for entertainment, but he is more apt at using his brains. I do not know, how many members are enjoying him, but i am enjoying him to the fullest. I would also mention that, the makers have roped in Gopal Singh(actor who plays Birbal), quite carefully. Actually, his 'looks' and the 'style of dialogue delivery' match with a normal North Indian with a rural background. This makes the man JUST perfect for the role of Birbal. This is my opinion, and i feel, he will do complete justice to this role..

Not much happened today, the kids went through a prayer/ritual with presence of the members of Royal household... Jalal proclaiming the release of prisoners and open the gates of royal treasury for people. I wanted this to be a grand feast. While the drama of kids sharing was done in Diwan-e-Khas, i wonder why not celebrate their birth there.?.

We can very well imagine how, the birth must have been celebrated in reality by reading these verses from Akbarnama..
    There was such a round of bumpers
    That patience deserted patience, and sense left sense.
H.M. took the blooming of these two rose-bushes as an omen of the auspiciousness of two worlds.
He returned thanks to God, and named one of the twins Mirza Hasan, the other Mirza Husain.

    The unique king had two sons as successors
    Two jewels came into the hands from the casket of success. {refers to the mother of twins.}    Time searching for the date wrote thus:
    Two moons appeared from the zenith.{refers to the Almighty.}

Those who want to read about the beautiful historical description of the birth of twins, from Akbarnama, can have it here- The TWINS of Mariam-Uz-Zamani and Akbar | An Assessment

In the starting of episode, there was also a short scene of Shaguni Bai, yet again re-iterating MA's curse..We had scenes where Jalal was praising Ruqayya and embraced her, for she helped in Jodha's delivery..She was also shown taking care of the twins..In the end of the episode, Jodha went to a temple with Man Singh, and while returning she encounters, an old lady whose daughter-in-law, was about to set herself and her son on fire..Jodha feels it is a "Paap(Sin) to do SUICIDE" , and asks Man Singh to stop the act of that lady..
Episode ENDS.!!.

Ruqayya is back to SQUARE ONE..!!! This is the starting of Ruqayya's Track. She asks Hamida Bano, if she can get one kid of Jodha now, as she fears Jodha may develop "feelings" for her twins, and refuse to give the 'promised' child to her. Jalal listens all this silently.

I normally give answers to all of you. But, today a question from me...
a. Can we compare Jauhar with a NORMAL suicide attempt.?. 
b. Is the mention of Jauhar in high regard an attempt to glorify this practice .?. 
c. Is Jauhar the product of male domination and overpowering women tactics .?. 
d. Is it an attempt by the male society to make "women subservient" and fill the brains of women with a strong faith that without the men death is the only option..!!

 Before i read your views, let me give my view also. 
To me Jauhar does not requires any "glorification" by an external agency. The act was practiced as a last resort to guard one's chastity. To the 21st Century world, this may appear cruel, but in 16th Century Era, what was the alternative after the warriors immortalized themselves fighting the enemy.?. While i advocate women empowerment, but facing the entire victorious army without the regular defenders, was it an easy task.?. There are cases in the History of Rajputana, when women fought along the Male Warriors in the wars, like the Battle of Chittor, 1567. But, there also, Jauhar was done as the last resort, when defeat was certain.

I have made a separate post on Jauhar, and would like to have your views on it.

Jauhar and Saka - The Ethos of Rajputana

You all are welcome to share your views, and discuss the episode... 
This article has been posted under the  Jodha-Akbar section of  history_geek's BLOG.


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  1. Great writeup for an extremely disappointing episode, to say the least. :(

    First and foremost, today's episode confirms to me what I had always suspected. That there will never be any Ruq exposure.

    What's more - she is being glorified even more than Maham in her last days. : (

    The birth of their first babies was such a special and momentous event in the life of JJ. And what did the CVs do? Take it from them and give it to Ruq on a silver platter.

    Both Jalal and Jodha have been shown to be apathetic and uncaring parents (Jalal yesterday, Jodha today). Whereas Ruq has been shown to be the only sensitive, courageous and caring person in the world.

    First of all, she is responsible for the premature delivery. But look at her audacity!!! She takes complete credit for delivering the babies. In spite of the STORM, in spite of being scared dead. And worse, Jalal hugs her and compliments her. And Jodha makes her hold the baby for the first time.

    In the entire scene / episode, Jodha looked like she was a surrogate mother. Who had delivered the babies before time for the royal couple of Jalal and Ruq. It was so irritating that we barely got one scene of JJ holding their babies together. None of Jodha caressing her baby. But plenty of scenes of Ruq caressing the kids and acting possessive and proud of them.

    Why is so much importance being given to her?

    1. Radhika,

      It's the calm before the storm.. I am looking forward to Ruqs track..
      Lets see..She was back to square one in the Precap..

  2. I agree with you about the celebrations. When we have jashns for every possible reason and sometimes even for no reason, why is no jashn announced? Jalal had announced a jashn even for Bakshi's baby.: (

    There is just a small gathering in which the priests bless the babies. Jalal hands out gifts. And worse, there is hardly any feeling of uncontrolled joy on Hamida, Gulbadan Begum and the other begums' faces. Even poor Jodha is not being allowed to enjoy motherhood. : (

    1. Radhika,

      The absence of a grand celebration was disappointing for me.
      I was expecting a Grand Feast, and some good episodes before the demise of twins.

  3. Birbal and his wife were OK. No great shakes.

    I would so much like the CVs to show more class, more sophistication, more intelligent wit than crass comedy at women's expense. And I want to see the clever, intellectual side of Birbal soon, the poet, author, singer...

    Wonder if my prayers will ever be heard!?

    1. Beautifully written Abhay for a disappointing episode. I guess I had too many expectations and all I got is more of Rukaiya.

      The only scene I cherished and loved was the Akdha and the twins scene. I too have started to like this Birbal. In fact I only watched him today because past 2 days I could not watch or enjoy any scenes as the Curse and JO's pain was always there in the back of my mind.

    2. Sindhu,

      I agree..Too much of Ruqayya was disappointing but i am hopeful..
      This is a deliberate attempt to build a halo around her before her downfall.
      Lets see..

    3. @ Radhika

      I am also expecting an intelligent Birbal, though i did not find anything 'crass', at the expense of women . :)

      I found Birbal was OK, and in line with what i know about him till now, and he is being portrayed as he should be..We were worried that he will be reduced to a clown, but that's not the case, at least not till now..
      About her wife, she is here to fill Javeda's void, it seems. She was bearable. BTW, Birbal's wife was from a GOOD background, i mean NOT "very" poor family , as many 'people' say..

  4. I feel the entire suicide drama has been enacted to delay Jodha's return to the palace. Thus giving Ruq an excuse that Jodha is careless and cannot be trusted with her baby. And later on Ruq can harm Jodha's baby and claim again that Jo being careless let the child be harmed.

    The precap indicates Ruq cannot wait even for a few days to take her baby from JJ. She doesn't even understand that the baby needs a mother's nursing and touch to grow strong.

    And the CVs cannot give us even one episode totally dedicated to the birth of the twins, which has been so beautifully described by Abul Fazl. Why are they so fond of thrusting negativity into every scene?

    1. This is quite possible Radhika..

      And, about your last para, i agree. That scene had a bitter taste.. There was no need to show the outing and twins birth just in one episode..

  5. I normally give answers to all of you. But, today a question from me...

    a. Can we compare Jauhar with a NORMAL suicide attempt.?.

    My Answer: No. Jauhar was a mass "suicide" performed under the most adverse conditions. The women were mentally in their senses and took a conscious decision to enact Jauhar to protect their honor and chastity from falling into enemy hands.

    b. Is the mention of Jauhar in high regard an attempt to glorify this practice .?.

    No. The extraordinary act of courage cannot be glorified. No matter in how much regard we hold it, we can never value it enough.

    c. Is Jauhar the product of male domination and overpowering women tactics .?.

    Not really. In those days, when the men themselves were sure of defeat in a war, how could the women fight and expect to win against a powerful enemy? And being caught by the enemy would have been a thousand times worse. Even Ruq, we have seen, carries a poison vial with her, to swallow in case anything happens to Jalal.

    This matter of placing self-respect over even death is something we should feel proud about.

    d. Is it an attempt by the male society to make "women subservient" and fill the brains of women with a strong faith that without the men death is the only option..!!

    No. Again, like i said in (C), with even the men gone fighting against a powerful enemy, how could the women expect to win? There are countless examples of women fighting along side men in war.

    Only in extreme situations was Jauhar committed. It was not practised like a regular ritual.

    1. Thanks for sharing your views.
      My readings and understanding of Jauhar are on similar lines..

  6. Great post Abhay, I was also dissapointed regarding the CELEBRATION OF the BIRTH OF TWINS....

    Let's see the PROCEEDINGS of Ruqaiyya's track,which was evident from the precap..

    My views regarding Jauhar are similar as that of yours....

    Au Revior ,Take care...

    1. Thanks for your views Lasya..
      I am hopeful, this Ruqayya track will be rushed fast, no one seems to be enjoying it + Ratings are going down.
      Lets see..

  7. My answers to your questions on Jauhar.
    a. No
    b. No
    c. No
    d. No

    Many people do not understand Jauhar and the reasons and circumstances behind this practice. Some confuse it with Sati.
    When faced with a certain death and defeat against an enemy which does not follow the code of chivalry that protects the innocent family members of the defeated side, consigning their bodies to flames was the only honorable way to protect themselves from the wrath of lecherous and brutal enemy soldiers.

    What other options did they have?
    1. Escape? Highly unlikely as they were surrounded by the enemy soldiers on all sides.
    2. Wait to be captured, gangraped, tortured, humiliated, dismembered, sold as sex slaves or killed mercilessly by the ruthless invaders.
    3. Join their men in the final valiant act of courage ....Saka.... it still carried a risk of getting captured.

    Those were brutal times . Jauhar wasn't really a choice...These women did not have the choice between life and death.The only choice they had was a honorable death vs a humiliating death. So they chose to die with dignity in an extremely desperate situation. I am not in favor of glorifying the practice but I make an attempt to understand the circumstances of these women who were forced by the shameful post victory actions of some enemies to commit this act.
    Recently, I read an interview of a very young Yazidi girl who was captured and used as a sex slave for months by a terrorist group in the middle east( the one in news all the time). Bone chilling story...she was possibly the only lucky one who managed to get out of that hell. Others (some as young as 8-10yrs ) witnessed all their loved ones slaughtered mercilessly..... and now they are forced to serve as sex slaves to upto 10-12 men/day. With no place to go or seek help even in an unlikely scenario of escaping their captives, all they pray for is a death with dignity soon.

    1. Thanks for your views Cleo..Mine are in sync with yours.
      Few days back, i went through various researches/books which had written about Jauhar, both Indian and Foreign. While views differ superficially, but in the end, almost ALL converge at one point, that Jauhar was THE LAST desperate attempt by women to save their chastity after the defeat, and Jauhar was NOT practiced at the drop of hat. That is why we have VERY few incidents of this in history. This act is often confused with Sati, which is absolutely different thing. I will upgrade my Jauhar article soon, and put up an update on the site.

  8. I simply cannot understand this Ruqaiya obsession of Ekta and the CV's. None of the TV programs or movies ever made on Akbar have it, but we have. Does Ruqaiya contribute to great ratings, absolutely not, the TRP's have fallen by nearly 1000 TVM since the Ruq track started. The only reason that I can think of, is that Lavina is a very nice person, Ekta and the Director love her, they want to give more screen time to her, if in the process, Jodha Akbar's story is affected, so be it.

    Anyway, I hate this track, I just want it to end as soon as possible.

    Abhay, your questions on Jauhar are interesting. My response-
    1 Technically, Jauhar is suicide, but a suicide influenced more by social dynamics than by psychological factors

    2 There is no doubt that the practice of Jauhar was glorified and given religious connotations so that it becomes easier to kill oneself when the time came

    3 in my opinion, Jauhar is a cultural symbol of male domination. I don't know of any other society which practices it, so it a a cultural thing and not a natural course of how things should happen. The practice of Sati strengthens the above argument. I have never heard of men committing suicide when their women folk die.

    1. Ruk is HATED DESPISED by viewers, nobody watches her scenes online viewing, she is leaking TRPs but these CVs cannot get over their Ruk glorification. Jodha was depicted almost as surrogate and Ruk's part in almost making Jodha and twins lose their lives was ignored.
      Jalal did NOTHING for Jodha not even a forehead kiss of thanks.

      Jodha was MADE TO WEAR the SAME outfit she wore for Adga Khan's funeral while Ruk was ALL DECKED UP!!!

      After the leap I am sorry but I do NOT FEEL ANY LOVE from Jalal. He is shown as pathetic callous husband and expectant father.

      What is with OTT Ruk shoved in viewers faces? MA glorification was disgusting and CVs are carrying it on with Ruk.

      Jalal and Jodha? They are just side characters in this Ruk the great!

    2. @Donjas..

      Completely agree about Creatives obsession with Ruqayya..I simply do not know why so much overdose of hers.?.

      Is she fetching ratings.? NO.
      Is she amongst the popular characters.?. NO
      Is she famous all over the social media as the MAIN leads.?. NO

      After all this, i am not able to understand the need for giving so much importance to this character... I am of the opinion that, all this is being done deliberately before she gets sidelined after this track, as per Zee's feedback..To put in simple words, it's the calm before the storm.

      About Jauhar..

      Interesting response buddy...Thanks for sharing your views.
      In my opinion, after going through many texts, and still going through many, Jauhar is more of a Last Ditch Desperate attempt to guard one's chastity after the defeat in war. This is male domination from the enemy's side.

      I have read several heart wrenching incidents, when women could not commit Jauhar due to paucity of time and the enemy entered the fort. That time, the women did anything to save themselves. They took voluntary suicide, if they were not able to do Jauhar, before the enemy entered. Those were medieval times, and devoid of any government.

      What would have been the fate of women after ALL the warriors died fighting.?. I have read case of Ala-ud-din Khilji who pursued the daughter of a ruler of Gujarat till DEEP Deccan..!!!

      We already know of the case of Adham Khan, son of Maham Anga, who wanted to take Rupmati into her custody after the defeat of Baz Bahadur of Malwa. That was a voluntary(yet SELF en-forced) option chosen by that lady to guard her chastity. We can call it Male domination, but again from enemy's side. The lady chose death before dishonor.

      There was no second option, no escape. By the way, there are many communities in other parts of the world, about whom i have read, who did annihilate themselves, before being captured..Latest case was the attack of Dutch on Bali. where even men stabbed themselves..!!!..Saka is different, here men ride out to kiss the death as dearly as possible..

      Sati is entirely a different custom. It was voluntary as well as forced. It's known instance of being forced comes into light during the Gupta Period about 3-4 century AD..

      Jauhar is not committing suicide FOR men, and is different from Sati. It is a LAST ditch attempt to save one's chastity. Sadly enough, it were the women who faced the brunt after the wars.!!

      Jauhar and Saka went on simultaneously, even the men committed a form of suicide(though i prefer not calling it so), because before before going to the battlefield, they knew, they are heavily outnumbered and now, they can fight and extract the maximum possible toll from the enemy..

      This was an interesting convo. And that's the advantage of this place. We can converse freely.

    3. @Medha

      I completely agree and can understand where you come from.. I have tried to neglect Ruqayya as much as possible..Her presence was irritating, and more than the MAIN leads.. I wish for this track to end as soon as possible..

  9. I stand corrected...Jauhar can be seen as a symbol of male domination.....males from the enemy side.
    I see Sati and Jauhar as two different customs. Both were common in Rajputana and the manner of death was similar. . But while sati was self immolation performed by widows on their husband's funeral pyre, Jauhar was a mass immolation of women, children, elderly and sick facing a certain defeat and dishonor by the invading army.Women performed Jauhar even if their husbands were alive...and it was done only at the time of war.

    I have read about instances from history where mass suicides were committed to prevent capture during or after a battle.

    1. Mass suicides during siege of Numantia by Roman general Scipio in 2nc century BCE.
    2. Mass suicide of the women of Teutones, a germanic tribe after they were defeated by the Romans in 2nd century BCE.They murdered their children before killing themselves/each other.This is also considered to be a 'glorified act' by many historians.
    3. Mass suicide of Jewish community at Masada to avoid being captured by Romans. Though the facts on this event are sketchy.
    4.Mass suicide in the castle of Pilenai under siege by Teutonic soldiers in 1336 AD.
    4. Mass suicide by 22,000 civilians by citizens of Sapian fearing torture and murder by the US troops.
    5.Puputan of Badung in 1906 after dutch army attacked Bali. Btw, Puputan is a Balinese ritual( like Jauhar was in Rajputana).
    6.Dance of Zalongo during the Souliote war in 1803. Women killed their children by throwing them off a cliff. They jumped to their deaths shortly after.
    7.Mass suicides in Germany in 1945. Most famous example is the town of Demmin where about 1000 people committed suicide after being surrounded by Russian soldiers.

    Murdering a loved one and then committing suicide cannot be easy for anyone. It is a final act of desperation to save one's honor before becoming a victim of enemy soldiers I don't see any reason to glorify it. At the same time, I don't have the heart to criticize it.....we don't know about the agony and helplessness of these people (mostly women and kids) in the final hours of their death.

    1. Thanks for the details Cleo..

      I wanted to mention some incidents in my earlier comment above. Found many of them here.. I am in agreement with your views..
      We do not know and infact can not adjudge the plight of those ladies in those hours, and what about the men.?. Who know that there is NOTHING left for them to go back, and fight to the last man standing..!!

      Today this appears cruel act, but those times were savage, the age of medieval warfare, and hence such practice..!!!

    2. Cleo,

      Stunning post! You have cited so many examples from world history to support your views on Jauhar. I fully agree that we cannot criticize an act without trying to understand why the women chose such a horrific death.

    3. Cleo, I agree with you. The way I see it Sati was an individual act while Jauhar was usually done in a group. Sati was sometimes voluntary but large times it was dinned into the woman that unless she committed sati her husband cannot go to heaven or some such pressure. Sati had other reasons like family not wanting to take responsibility of a destitute woman for her entire life, to get rid of possible inheritor of property etc.

      Sati was done in times when there was no remarriage and when mostly women used to get married at very early age.

      Jauhar was done for protection and in group as a last resort. The way I see it if the alternative was to fall into enemy's hands and get disgraced and spend entire life like a slave or toy this was considered a dignified alternative.

      When we consider the times and the barbarity in existence then I consider Jauhar a necessity of that time. My knowledge is limited but I don't know of anybody forcing jauhar on women while Sati was forced sometimes. I have read women used to be given afu/afim to make them sleepy and barely conscious so they would not develop cold feet.

      We should not term any practice as unjustified cos they were in existence due to those times.

      Also it is not as if this was only limited to India - what about the burning of witches in Europe? Religious intolerance practiced by Vatican - scientists and free thinkers, artists were tortured. The priests and their sexual scandals still get revealed.

      So each civilization had its bad practices.

  10. Abhay it was absolutely pathetic episode. I did not enjoy it one bit. The Rukayya glorification is just disgusting. The REAL MOTHER of the twins was relegated like some surrogate mother and Ruk hogged the credit. SHE was the one who put Jodha and Twins at risk but she got praised! Jodha's first words on gaining consciousness was Shehenshah and what she saw? Jalal hugging Ruk!

    What kind of eager expectant father on getting news of twin sons born after his wife wen thru horrendous torturous delivery - where HE WAS NOT PRESENT - DOES NOT EVEN BOTHER to thank his wife? There was no thanks for giving me the most awaited cherished dream of mine - no hug no forehead kiss NOTHING.

    The Jashna was just super pathetic and EVEN MORE PATHETIC was the gift! For giving him 2 sons he handed Jodha some pathetic bracelet! Jodha the mother was put on the same level as everybody else and handed a trinket.

    So CHEAP!!! If Jalal had instead said to Jodha you gave me the most awaited cherished sons and there is no gift I can give to you as priceless so can give only thanks would have been more appropriate.

    I do not think the woman trying to burn herself scene could be of Johar. It might be that there is some complicated issue and after saving the woman and child Jodha and Maan Singh might get her to DEK where the solution to the problem might be provided by Birbal so earning respect. He is just a new entry and so far has not earned anybody's trust or respect yet.

    I think Jodha might try to commit suicide after twins and maybe someone will remind her what she had said about suicide being paap.

    Overall horrendous episode where AS USUAL nobody took care of Jodha! She is already shown roaming around solving issues leaving her infants who need her around all the time, not to mention HER HEALTH!

    Ruk glorification is DISGUSTING - whether it is done cos CVs are sadists, if Lavina has some pull in BT or it is done as revenge against PS no idea.
    As viewers it is getting torture to watch. These CVs have no respect for history or sensitivity in depicting royalty. They are just crass pathetic writers.

    PS just one point since historically the twins passed away in 10 and 17 days for any plot of Rukayya to unravel they have to show her plotting immediately.
    I just hope we are not in for MORE Ruk glorification and further insults of Jodha and her and babies torture.
    Absolutely SICK SADISTS CVs.

    1. Medha,

      Your venting is understandable. I tried to put up this post, as carefully as possible. The episode had many things missing in it. I was wondering, can we ever have an episode where the " SOCIAL " issues can be given a back seat.?. There was no need to show any immolation act in this episode. A celebration was needed..!!

      You are right. I am expecting this Ruqayya track to be wind up soon. And, falling TRP's may make the brains of BT functional..!!

  11. Replies
    1. Thanks Abhi..and glad to see your comment here. :)

  12. Abhay I still can't understand why there is not BIG JASHAN on the birth of TWINS ?

    What's that GIFT giving by Shahansha to his family members.. The pathetic gift was particularly the necklace given to JO... JO has given him the WARIS, the kids which he has been longing so long ..

    Why can't CVS show JJ scene where Jalaal say nothing can be more precious that the GIFT given to him by JO, but still he want to give her s small necklace which he likes or he himself put that around her neck himself ..

    BB and his wife scene is OK, couldn't enjoy much as still MA & Javeeda scenes are more humours.. But still waiting to see how Birbal character will shape up..

    Why can't CVS show both JJ going to mandir together ? When JJ both went together for the MANNAT she asked for Ruku child, why can't they show JJ going together after the birth of TWINS ?

    I am waiting to see why the lady is getting suicide ? Is it related to Jauhar some other law ?

    I liked the TWINS a lot they are so cute and small JJ scene together..

    Ruqu track started, now her first mission to separate the baby from the mother that too with in 2 days of birth..What CVS will show JO really feeling the pain of separation or Jo happy agrees to Ruku to have her baby herself now ?

    1. Wondeful post Abhi..
      The celebration part was not upto the mark. When it comes to celebrations i like the Maharana Pratap show, of Sony..They show everything with grandeur of Royals, but here we saw a few necklace/bracelet etc. been handed.

      I don't think the immolation act is related to jauhar, this was a general question.

      M eagerly waiting for Ruqayya's track to start, infact started, all this Hakima visit may be a plan to show that she is a good mother.
      Lets see..

      I want focus to be an JJ, and more weightage given to Historical stuff.. We have Birbal here, hoping for his elevation..

  13. Abhay nice post..right now i am least bothered about jashan or grand celebration..i just want to see rukku's exposure...and thats big celebration..vaise who knows ..they may celebrate it ..i mean naming ceremony..more over in JA jashan means danger... who knows they hav planned it may be in next week... i just want to see rukku's punishment nothing else...more over this is ekta's show..dont expect grand celebrations..they are no 1 kanjoos..i am happy rukku track started...started implementing her plan..but il be checkmated soon... muje sirf rukku ki punishment chahiye bus aur kuch nahi

    1. Thanks Gem..
      I am also looking forward to her exposure.. Hope this happens soon..

  14. Abhay.. i loved yesterday's episode...again only jolal scenes..

    1)wen he saw rukku ..his heart almost stopped beating for few mins ..wen he got to no that jo got injured and delivered premature babies..
    2)he literally begging rukku to tell wat happened..and begged her to tell if his begum and kids are safe or not..we cud see how worried he was about his jodha and kids
    3)the moment he entered jodha's hojra he looked so worried and in pain that he was not thr with his jodha wen she needed him..
    4)the moment he entered his eyes and heart looked at jodha only and only after seeing she is fine and sleeping peacefully then he started searching for his kids..two diamonds
    5)he thanked god saying lak lak shukar hai humari begum or humare bache sahi salamat hai
    6)he asked hakima how his beloved wife is and her health..
    7)he took his kids and holded them in his arms and looked at his beloved wife with love
    8)Jodha jalal making thr children sleep and jalal holding both kids and jo leaning on his shoulders..perfect family how i wished the world to end at that point of the time.
    9)how jolal holding hands and looking at thr children
    10)how both are happy and smiling at thr children and how jo was happy and at peace seeing jalal happy with his kids

    I ignore jalal hugging rukku..coz i feel its out of gratitude that she saved his beloved wife's life and kids life..he hugged her out of gratitude not out of love ...soon she il be punished... i am just tolerating rukku these days only in a hope she il be exposed and punished soon...

    1. Gem..
      Many thanks for penning this post here...I so agree with you..Jodha Jalal scenes are fine, and can be enjoyed if we ignore Ruqayya.. It's great you chose to elaborate on the best aspects.

  15. Great post Abhay! Happy Navratri from my side! :)

    The episode was highly average. No great shakes. Ruqaiyya overload throughout. Not what I wanted but I feel the CVs are giving Ruqaiyya so much footage on purpose now that she will be punished. I am not really bothered by the fact that there was no celebration or anything. All I care at this point is for Ruqaiyya's exposure and I saw hints of that happening soon in the precap.

    I still understand the significance of Jodha seeing the woman attempt suicide. What was the importance of putting that scene there? Was it to make Jodha realise that she loves both her children and she won't give one baby to Ruqaiyya? Or was it just for timepass?

    Another thing I was thinking over yesterday was the Farmaan Jalal had issued stating that the kid would be returned to Jodha if Ruqaiyya failed to be a good mother to him. And since we saw Jalal looking gloom in the precap, will he use some teda way to ensure that the original Farmaan stands cancelled? Or will he issue another Farmaan stating that Jodha will keep the children with her for 6 months or so? Will he take Birbal's help for this? A lot remains to be seen.

    I am hoping that Ruqaiyya gets exposed soon :)

    1. Hey Samanika,

      You seem quite optimistic. Actually, i also replied the same thing to Radhika in my first comment.>.This is the calm before the storm, Ruqayya is deliberately given MORE footage before her expose..

      About the Farman, Lets see how this track plays out..I don't know about the suicide angle shown in the show..

      Keep posting. :)

    2. Happy Navratri to you too, Samanika and everyone here!

      The woman committing suicide may be linked to the black marketing scam being investigated by Todar Mal. One shopkeeper had mentioned how Adham Khan had kidnapped someone's daughter to bring her father around. This woman may be harassed by Adham's henchmen. And trying to kill herself rather than fall prey to them. This incident may shock Jalal to take immediate action.

      Another alternative is that she may be under pressure to part with her son and is therefore killing herself and her son, rather than part with him. This may be a warning bell to Jodha that she should not part with her child so easily. When this is juxtaposed with Ruq's wish to have her child immediately, it may lead to tension in the palace. The CVs LOVE this kind of scenario. Jalal will again stand in front of the Tarazu and wonder what he should do.

      Third alternative is that the woman's husband has died. And she wants to end her life and her son's in an emotionally weak moment. Jodha stops her. This incident leads to abolishment of Sati in the kingdom. But this would be too much of a potpourri right now. So I rule this one out.

      Regarding the farman Ruq signed, promising to be a good mother. The babies live for a very short period in which it is not possible to decide if she has been a good mother or not. So that angle can hardly be fit here in my personal opinion. : )

      Jalal may act Teda and do something. I hope so. But I have lost all hopes of his acting logically in recent times. The last time he acted teda in the Atifa track, it was a disaster.

      Birbal's entry at this point indicates that he may have a role to play in this track. From now on, we may see less of the TE, as Birbal takes over the Intelligence department. : )

    3. Hey Abhay!

      Yup I always try being positive because the makers continuously mislead us and the result has been disastrous. I make it a point to view a situation in the long run.

      Here, whatever we are being shown of Ruqaiyya is just a short term thing; and if it means a better future, I don't mind till it goes on. Though I hope that she is exposed soon! :)

    4. Hey Radhika!

      Thank you for answering all my queries! I finally thought about all the ways this may influence the track

      Birbal seems pretty smart here, and I feel he will help out Jalal here. The precap showed that he didn't want to give the child away and since Ruqaiyya has already started showing her true colours we could see him do something. CVs and makers have kept everything under wraps so we don't have a hint of what might actually happen.

      Ruqaiyya's constant presence is an eyesore and she should be taken care of soon! :D

    5. @Samanika

      This is an interesting possibility if Birbal is also introduced in this track, in the form of some help to Jalal..

  16. Abhay,

    The JA section is a runaway hit.Congrats!!! This definitely calls for a Jashn : )

    Loved all comments here, but more than that, loved the fact that ALL OUR FRIENDS are here and what a lovely ambience! : )

    1. I too find the comments of many friends here quite refreshing. :)

  17. A common thread running thru ALL comments here is that EVERYONE is waiting for Ruqaiyya to be exposed and punished. This wish is SO intense that we are willing to overlook everything else and we are not able to appreciate anything else.

    Frankly, Ruqaiyya has been exposed many times in front of Jalal. This time, she may cross ALL limits. But But But....

    Will she be punished????

    Punishing a queen is exposing the King to ridicule and public shame.

    Historically, the most we know is that Akbar didn't speak to her for some years till Salim was born and Jodha intervened and brought them together again.

    This being EK's show, she can reduce the time to a couple of days and ensure that Jodha mediates between Jalal and RUq and brings them together soon.

    We have seen the harem ladies were full of sympathy for Maham till the end , in spite of knowing that she had even tried to get Jalal killed. Naturally, Ruq is their own blood and also responsibility. These ladies will ensure that Ruq's punishment, if any, is reduced to a nominal one and will shower even more guilt-laden love on her.

    Jalal himself may be shown to brood and feel miserable for having punished his best buddy. He may go for another round of takht burning - blaming the takht for corrupting his friend's mind.

    Jodha will definitely be shown to feel deeply for Ruq and visit her often and try to bring her back to the family fold again.

    Amidst all this, Ruq's actions will be justified as those of a woman who was desperate to be a mother and who did whatever sin she did just for the sake of being addressed as ammijaan by a child.

    This is what I foresee based on my reading of the CVs and their twisted logic.

    Further, even before the dust settles on this Ruq track and we heave a sigh of relief hoping to see some cosy family moments, the SD track (or some other equally wretched track) will start and put us thru the wringer again.

    The CVs are not in love with Maham or Ruq or MC. They are in love with Negativity, Sadism and Emotional Atyachar.

  18. The next thing after Ruqaiyya that everyone seems to HATE in yesterday's episode is Jalal's reception of the news of the twins being born, his response to Jodha and his gift to her.

    Gem has explained the sequence of events portraying Jalal's concern for Jodha, even over the babies, in a wonderfully positive manner. : )

    No doubt Jalal is concerned for Jodha and grateful to her for gifting him with two beautiful cherubs. Everything need not be demonstrated or expressed outwardly. But some things DO need to be done or said, even if the person at the receiving end does not mind them not being aid or done.

    The CVs, for reasons best known to themselves, showed an overtly concerned husband and father in the Ruq FP track. But when Jodha became REALLY pregnant, the CVs have made him withdraw from participating actively in the parenthood journey.

    Yesterday was an extension of that withdrawn father / husband image. It is jarring to us because it is NOT the Jalal we know or expect. The Jalal we know is over the moon for anything related even remotely with Jodha. He is praying with all his inner desire for a child for many years now. When these two coincide and Maham's apparent curse seems to have failed, Jalal should have been on Cloud Nine, not the restrained man we saw yesterday.

    This is the problem with the CVs. They restrain JJ when they should be in raptures. But they give OTT treatment to negative characters.

    The whole of the episode should have been dedicated to how JJ bond with their babies and adjust to their exalted status as parents. I can forget the jashn. But I will always MISS the absence of warm, loving family moments when 2 much-awaited kids entered the lives of a royal couple deeply in love with each other.

    1. Fantastic post. You have hit the crux of the matter regarding Jalal's emotional attitude towards Jodha.

      The problem, in my opinion, is the CV's desire to hold on to the good parts for the future. So, they show a passionate and caring Jalal with Ruqaiya, Atifa etc because in their views, Jalal's relations with these people will only deteriorate in the future, now is the high point.

      In the case of a Jodha, in the CV's twisted viewpoint of the future, the Jodha-Jalal relationship will only get stronger in the future, so the present situation can be shown as less than ideal, sometimes even callous. So, the high point is not now, it is sometime in the future.

    2. @Donjas I exactly felt the same yesterday. They seem to be giving the twins' birth less importance for now. Everything is been shown as very thanda. They are saving the best for last truly!

    3. @Donjas and Samanika,

      There is a saying, The future is Now. How can the CVs postpone the good times for some distant future that may never happen?!

      We are spending our time waiting for good times to happen to JJ. If those good times may happen some time in the future, we may lose our patience and interest by that time and then who will watch those happy days of Jodha Akbar?

  19. i am a rajput woman.i know what is ancestors in chittor and ranthambor did jauhar.i hv known their plight frm close quarters.

    jauhar is not influenced by social is influenced by the fear of losing the is performed to protect the chaste character of a woman.jauhar is not done every was done when no door was left was the helplessness of the women when they had to choose between dishonor and honor.the woman did not want their deadbodies to be touched by the invaders.they prefer dying 1000 times than getting in clutches of enemy.the women could end their lives in fire, but what about men for whom there was no one left to setup a funeral?

    i ask.what shud a woman do if her state loses war.she has these options.offer her to the winning side, and be treated as an object of satisfaction for all of their desires.sell her chastity.let the winning side use her.history tells us what happens with women after the wars.why is jauhar seen in negative light.there are many cultures which feel ending there lives is better option than submit to today's world we read war crimes done by most civilised forces.then what can we expect frm the barbaric forces in medieval times who fought long wars without having any pleasure.they are not central asia, now we heard about a young girl violated by insurgents.what is your take on a woman i prefer burning myself 1000 times better than allowing anyone take possession of myself.i know it is easier said than done, but i have seen the jauhar kunds.i have read about jauhar.i know those beastly act which the winning side was capable of doing.condemning jauhar is easy but no one is ready to understand how difficult it was for the women who were stuck in rajput forts.rajputs did jauhar and had maximum sieges because they were gateway to india.without fighting them, it was impossible to rule here in medieval times.

    we are talking medieval medieval times, men were not raped in india.but women could were held as protectors.women did not fight all wars.all women are not rani durgawati.all women are not the wife of rana samar singh(she led her army against afghans near amber).all women are not razia sultan.i know rajput culture.this is not male domination.sati is different from jauhar,i condemn sati practice and this is not glorified in bards.sati was not limited to north india.its worst form was present in bengal and south india.mainly in bengal situation was very bad.the likes of enlightened men like mohan roy helped in that time.the women did not do jauhar for men.sati could be mentioned as example here not jauhar.practices of sati are in south indian was a pan-india act.

    1. Hi,

      I am deeply touched by your post. I fully empathize with your views.

      Even today, the position of women in India is precarious. Even today, women are the objects of lust for winning armies and sometimes even their own armies / insurgent movements.

      You are right in stating that Rajputana was the gateway to India. Whoever came over land, from Greece or Central Asia or West Asia had to cross Rajputana to reach Delhi/ Agra and rule over India.

      This may help explain why Rajputs developed strong warrior skills and high ideals of honor over death. They were the ones who had to fight a thousand wars to keep constant waves of invaders at bay. The rest of India also fought wars but was not always at the forefront.

      Many of the armies that came from Central Asia were savage barbarians. They had no soft corner, especially for the losing side. When constantly exposed to such brutal forces, it is natural for communities to develop social practices like the Jauhar to safeguard themselves from the marauders.

      You are right in observing that for Hindu women, purity was of utmost essence. They didn't want even their dead bodies to fall into enemy hands because they may have experienced that the enemy didn't spare even the dead. This, along with the concept of Fire helping a soul cross over to the "pitr loka", was perhaps a precursor to the practice.

      Sati is a totally different concept. And yes, it was practiced widely by Hindus even outside Rajputana. Sati can be viewed as an act of violence against helpless, widowed women. I have read horror stories of how widows were killed in the name of Sati in S.India.

      In yesterday's episode, the woman's suicide bid may have been just that. It was not Jauhar in any event, and technically speaking, it cannot be called Sati also, even if the woman is a widow. Sati was usually performed on the husband's funeral pyre and not separately.

      Once again, it was deeply heart rending to read your post.

    2. @ i-am-your-fan..

      I can very well connect to your post buddy. I am reading some personal research of a foreign scholar which she compiled after her self talks with people and long visits in Rajasthan. Her views are same as yours, and i can see where you come from. I can understand your post.

      Yes, Sati and Jauhar are entirely different things.

      Nice take. Keep posting. :)

    3. I agree with you, copying reply I had posted to Cleo. The way I see it Sati was an individual act while Jauhar was usually done in a group. Sati was sometimes voluntary but large times it was dinned into the woman that unless she committed sati her husband cannot go to heaven or some such pressure. Sati had other reasons like family not wanting to take responsibility of a destitute woman for her entire life, to get rid of possible inheritor of property etc.

      Sati was done in times when there was no remarriage and when mostly women used to get married at very early age.

      Jauhar was done for protection and in group as a last resort. The way I see it if the alternative was to fall into enemy's hands and get disgraced and spend entire life like a slave or toy this was considered a dignified alternative.

      When we consider the times and the barbarity in existence then I consider Jauhar a necessity of that time. My knowledge is limited but I don't know of anybody forcing jauhar on women while Sati was forced sometimes. I have read women used to be given afu/afim to make them sleepy and barely conscious so they would not develop cold feet.

      We should not term any practice as unjustified cos they were in existence due to those times.

      Also it is not as if this was only limited to India - what about the burning of witches in Europe? Religious intolerance practiced by Vatican - scientists and free thinkers, artists were tortured. The priests and their sexual scandals still get revealed.

      So each civilization had its bad practices.

    4. thanks radhika.reading ur post is pleasure for me on IF and here also.plz keep writing.

    5. Hey, No one is going to eat your head here. :) So you don't have to be a silent reader any more. Please post more often and enjoy free and fair discussions.

  20. history-geek
    apologies for my venting.i was unhappy reading some views on jauhar.i lodged by pov here.thanks for this blog.i am happy u opened this blog for us.

    1. The idea of this blog is to help people to communicate openly. Please do not apologize for "venting" because it is very important that people who have personal experience / knowledge should share it with the rest of us for better understanding of each other's POV as well as ethos.

      Please do continue to share your views freely here. : )

    2. @i-am-your-fan

      I agree with Radhika..The purpose of this Blog itself is to share your views freely, and indulge in discussions which can help all of us understand the various POV's and dispel the wrong notions, if any. :)

    3. thank u radhika and history-geek.

      i do not write on IF because ppl are ready to eat you there.they do not allow differing pov.i admire ur calm coherent replies to the most rude questions.i will post here when possible for me.i am more of silent stalker of ur posts.i find this place very positive.will frequent more.

  21. HI Abhay!! Brilliant analysis for fine episode... I really enjoyed watching JJ scenes along with their babies on one roof cuddling each other in those hands.. I personally loved Jodha's gesture in allowing Rukaiya to hold her own blood without any hesitation or possessiveness... After all she is Jodha a Rajput Queen who always stands up for her promise in reaching out... Yes I expected a lot like a normal mother I thought she would be expected or excited in holding her baby but she yet again differs from universal code of tag mother.. Only I can admire her uniqueness which differs from normal humanity... I too expected a grand celebration around Agra.. I too expected some ravishing moments but cv's disappointed me.... Where this was the most anticipated moment for a king in leading a heir to his throne I don't know why this least treatment for main tracks... When it comes to negative tracks or a exposure track cv's spending a lot in giving fake jashn.. Another thing I m loving cv's limelighting gems in Akbar court like TM,MS and now BB entry... I too liked GS as BB.. I guess his body language and his appearance suits as BB.. Slowly it will too create a mark or a magic.. But I couldn't get the fact either it's RT or Jalal looks drained out throughout this episode.. Maybe he looks tired or ignored? I loved to watch his priceless expressions on seeing and holding his twins on hands.. It's a lovely and adorable moment from his side... I couldn't find any happiness from harem women's?? I loved Jalal's composed extreme caring and affectionate eye _lock between JJ when Rukku get Jalal into Jo hojra in showing him babies.. I don't care about Ruk and Jalal hug because it's a friendly hug but why Jalal credited in hugging Ruku it's he was relieved so much in safeguarding Jo from drastic tragedy other than its a humanity that every woman will do that.. All way it's too much for Ruku in saving Jo.. Lol..

    1. Wonderful post archana.
      I agree, Just leave Ruqayya and see other scenes, then it was a fine episode.But i expected the royal grandeur and BIG celebrations in Agra and Amer, but the budget of BT does not permits this perhaps.Just giving a bracelet or necklace is not celebration.I still can not understand why was Ruqs given so much importance.?. I am hoping for a grand celebration later after Ruqs expose. Lol.

  22. Hiii... nice take... did sum up my views too... the episode was anything but fitting... in fact quite a dampener... what was the need of having ruqaiyya everywhere... i understand that cvs are building the track next up...but what about savouring the moment n it sure wasn't a regular occasion...grand it should have been but what we got was not even comparable... off course expectations weren't fulfilled but its not just about desires... keeping an open mind the episode shall do only in the wake of the oncoming ruqaiyya exposure ... akbar was pretty restrained which was quite out of character n occasion too... a little more emotions would have been welcome... anyway no point dwelling me thinks cause heartbreaks are the rule of the day i guess... hope trps make a point... jodha was impressive though. ..
    Sati n Jauhar are two entirely different practices... n no point repeating cause the points made here are quite comprehensive... n i agree with them... Jauhar is self immolation for preserving one's honour n purity... extreme n last ditch attempt... while sati was more for societal customs n though was claimed voluntary but was anything but it.. women were forced to kill themselves since they became burdens post their husbands died n their family turned their back on them... yea Sati as a practice might not be as rampant as before but the condition of widows is no better even till day... cities like vrindavan bear testimony to the life of desolation n misery that women have to surrender to cause they arent of any use anymore to their families... guess m deviating... sorry for that.. but women n their conditions are still precarious... but Jauhar was for preserving one's chaste n honour... m definitely not gonna comdemn it cause it was a choice made in the face of extreme disgrace... so the psychology behind it is understandable...


    1. Hi Neha,

      I also thought of the widows of Vrindavan the moment the topic of Sati came up. But refrained from mentioning it.

      I fully agree with everything you say regarding position of women, especially widows.

    2. Heyyy Radhika...

      Glad to know you agree... wholistic women empowerment is what's missing even in this hi tech age... n that's exactly what we need...

      A nice compelling discussion here is such a good read...

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  24. What a discussion! Congrats, Abhay, fr this free spirited session.Get to know lot of views. Only thing I miss is ur emoticons:). Regarding the qustns u asked,
    a.No. Suicide cannot be equated with jauhar., though in both the cases, the step is taken in desperation. Jouhar reminds us of the pride of Rajputs not letting bargained. The difference lies in the aftermath. In case of suicide, one's relatives can raise doubts abt the act whether approvable or otherwise ,in case of jouhar, it is always held in high esteem.As u hv said it is done en mass to guard the chastity of women.
    b.No, I don't think it's been glorified as it involves one's own choice.
    c.I really don't know how jauhar came into existence.It might be a traditional practice nothing to do with male domination.I don't think it is backed by scriptures like Sati wherein we can see foul play.
    d.I don't think so, as jauhar was purely frm heart.There was a choice between degnified death verses life like a hell

  25. Hi @Neha and Geeta..

    Very Nice review....I liked your views..Have to hurry up for some urgent work. Keep posting .. I will drop in whenever possible. You all carry on.. :)

    Your views on jauhar and sati are in concurrence with mine..